Graphics card question

[Walmart Security]

Hey guys. I want to buy a new video card but i dont know whether i should get a 128mb card pr spring for a 256mb card. Which one should i get? and if i get the 128mb one will i be okay for the next 3 or 4 years or will it be outdated and then i have to go get a new 256mb card?
Please help, thanks.

[Ravendust]

I imagine in 4 years we'll see 512 or even 1024 (1gb) cards so anything you buy now could be outdated by then. I'd go for the 256 because the 128 will be outdated a lot faster. I reccomend the ATI Radeon X800XT 256mb, although I have a 9800XT which isn't as good, i've heard nothing but good things.

Link: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-127-138R&depa=0

[Smith|]

Well, for serious gaming (High Res with AA and AF), 256MB cards are a must. If you're just a light gamer, then 128MB cards should do you fine. But don't buy a card that can't handle that large of a frame buffer, like a 5200. If you're going 256MB, then get atleast a 6800 or X800Pro. Memory on lesser cards is pretty much useless when it reaches > 128MB as the core itself just can't handle the amount of stress to actually render the screen with such high quality.

[Walmart Security]

I can only get a PCI card for now. Im not going to upgrade my motherboard to agp or PCI express until Christmas because of my warranty on my computer and i want a card now. What do you guys think of these cards?
Click Here (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1020528&CatId=1603) andHere (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1081946&CatId=1603) , I think they are pretty good for being pci cards.

[Smith|]

You are overpaying for either of those cards. Also, don't even go 128MB if you're going PCI. Just get a 9200 64MB crap. Anything on the PCI bus is too limited to be of use.

[Walmart Security]

Yeah but wont they get the job done or what? all I care about for now is that I get a good card that gets the job done. Whats up with PCI anyway, why does everyone say that its crappy, and what makes it so slow?

[Tassadar]

Smith or Cuc could probably tell you more about it, but the bottom line is that PCI slots are old and outdated, and are no longer meant for graphics cards. PCI slots are a lot slower than AGP (hence the name, Accelerated Graphics Port).

AGP
AGP 4x, using a 32-bit channel operating at 133 MHz double pumped to an effective 266 MHz resulting in a maximum data rate of 1066 megabytes per second; 1.5 V signaling;
AGP 8x, double pumped at 266 MHz to give a maximum of 2133 megabytes per second; 0.8 V signaling.
PCI (non-Express)
33.33 MHz clock with synchronous transfers
peak transfer rate of 133MB per second
32-bit or 64-bit bus width
PCI 2.2 allows for 66MHz signalling (requires 3.3 volt signalling) (peak transfer 533 MB/s)
So, as you see... PCI is just old and crappy. The first PCI was made in 1990, and the first AGP in 1997. A new type of PCI slot, called PCI-X, or PCI Express, has come out recently and put PCI slots back on the map for graphics cards, but don't confuse PCI cards with PCI-X cards or visa versa, as they are quite different performance wise. And you'll also need to invest in a nForce 4 mobo with PCI-X and a new 64 bit processor if you want to effectively go to PCI-X .

And that's my 2 cents.

[Iyce Da Kidd]

since it's a graphic card question... can you add anti-antialiasing (pixel shader) to a video card that does not have it?

[Smith|]

since it's a graphic card question... can you add anti-antialiasing (pixel shader) to a video card that does not have it?

HAH. That was probably one of the funniest tech things I've ever heard. Some forums I visit would have you crucified for that line.

Oh, and Tassadar, PCI-Express is PCI-E, not PCI-X. Just though you'd like to know >_o.


Yeah but wont they get the job done or what? all I care about for now is that I get a good card that gets the job done. Whats up with PCI anyway, why does everyone say that its crappy, and what makes it so slow?
Reply With Quote
Yea, pretty much what Tassy said was right. PCI is a lot older and cannot deliver nearly enough bandwidth for a graphic's card. AGP and PCI-E are the latest and greatest things, but PCI-E is a little overboard and not needed... yet.

[Iyce Da Kidd]

HAH. That was probably one of the funniest tech things I've ever heard. Some forums I visit would have you crucified for that line.

Well everyone doesn't know about computers like you do -_-, It was a question, I didn't ask for your remarks did I?

[Smith|]

It wasn't an insult, I just thought it was kind of funny. Sheesh. Sorry, Iceman.

But yea, I'll go into depth for you:
Antialiasing is a render method that allows you to "blur" the edges of structures ingame, such as a wall or a gun to make it blend in with the surroundings and remove the "jaggies".
http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/2073/aa_example.jpg

Pixel shading is a processing feature of the latest GPUs (Graphics Processing Units) or VPUs (Video Processing Unit), as told by ATI. It allows the GPU to be programmed to "shade" pixels and form complex effects such as bump mapping and the Half Life 2 water. It's a very useful feature ;).

I hope I kept the simple, usually when I do this it ends up being confusing as I can't find the right words in my head.

[Iyce Da Kidd]

Ice: I luv you
Smith: I luv you too

Smith:... KIss Me

Ice: Ok..

*WOOOSH*

lol Iz sowweh! and danke

[Walmart Security]

Will PCI lag too bad or will I be okay for a while until i get a new PCIe motherboard and a PCIe card? because all I care about is that I get a card that will get the job done, kinda like a temporary card for the next year or so, and i can only get a PCI card, if i didnt already tell you guys.

[Smith|]

Depends what you plan on playing. If you stick to Half Life 1 mods, you'll be perfectly fine. But don't plan on playing any of the newest games at ... 15 fps.

[DiebytheSword]

And if you upgrade, don't upgrade to an AGP mobo, get a mobo with PCI-E . . . AGP uses direct traces to the "northbridge" area of the chipset, and is physically closer to the CPU, but PCI-E has much greater bandwidth. Remember, AGP is overglorified PCI with direct traces, all further versions of AGP (3.0 is the current standard) are built on the same limitations with greater bandwidth. PCI-E is designed primarily to replace the PCI spec but replacing AGP was kept in mind.

Think of it this way. PCI was the defacto standard since the pentium 1, all the original graphic accellerator cards used it. When the need for bandwidth outstripped PCI's abilities, they made a band-aid called AGP. AGP worked for a while, but it is still a band-aid. PCI-E is an overhaul of the whole bus system which hosted both PCI and it's bastard offspring AGP.

Any, and I mean ANY, of your upgrade options must include PCI-E or you will only replace your mobo again. Upgrading your PCI card will be useless.

[Smith|]

And if you upgrade, don't upgrade to an AGP mobo, get a mobo with PCI-E . . . AGP uses direct traces to the "northbridge" area of the chipset, and is physically closer to the CPU, but PCI-E has much greater bandwidth. Remember, AGP is overglorified PCI with direct traces, all further versions of AGP (3.0 is the current standard) are built on the same limitations with greater bandwidth. PCI-E is designed primarily to replace the PCI spec but replacing AGP was kept in mind.

Think of it this way. PCI was the defacto standard since the pentium 1, all the original graphic accellerator cards used it. When the need for bandwidth outstripped PCI's abilities, they made a band-aid called AGP. AGP worked for a while, but it is still a band-aid. PCI-E is an overhaul of the whole bus system which hosted both PCI and it's bastard offspring AGP.

Any, and I mean ANY, of your upgrade options must include PCI-E or you will only replace your mobo again. Upgrading your PCI card will be useless.

While yea, it's good to be future proof, PCI-E offers no performance boosts over AGP8X even with it's "super" bandwidth. The only thing I could think that PCI-E gives which is a good bonus is the extra voltage so you don't have to use as many, if any at all, molex connectors on the card.

[Walmart Security]

Will I be okay Playing Halo and Farcry and those types of games, or are they too demanding? And if not, then should I just buy a new motherboard with PCIe instead? Because thats what im leaning toward right now.

[Smith|]

Don't expecting much.

[DiebytheSword]

Will I be okay Playing Halo and Farcry and those types of games, or are they too demanding? And if not, then should I just buy a new motherboard with PCIe instead? Because thats what im leaning toward right now.

You might squeak by with Halo, but Farcry will be out of your reach.

[Devion]

There are some advantages of pci-e.

Like the TurboCache(nVidia) and HyperMemory(ATI), which werent possible with AGP.

[Walmart Security]

Okay then I think I'll get a motherboard with 8x agp. It sounds like their is no less bandwith than PCIe has Im not really interested in that voltage stuff, I'm getting a 550w power supply, It sounds like it can handle it, just as long as i have a card with good bandwith and it sounds like 8x AGP has great bandwith. Besides, it sounds not as expensive as a PCIe incorperated Motherboard and a PCIe graphics card is. But are their any socket 478 motherboards with 8x AGP incorperated on it? O_o

Oh and what is a "Molex Connector?" It sounds kinda fancy.

[Smith|]

There are some advantages of pci-e.

Like the TurboCache(nVidia) and HyperMemory(ATI), which werent possible with AGP.

All of which are pretty useless.

Oh and what is a "Molex Connector?" It sounds kinda fancy.
It's the same pwer connector that is used for hard drives and cd-roms, but instead you plug it into the video card so it can get the power it needs.

[Walmart Security]

Really, so thats what a molex connector is. Hey, thanks for all of your guys' help. So if you guys are right about all of this, (which it sounds like you all know what your talking about) then i will get a New Motherboard with 8x AGP and an 8x agp card. Anyway thanks for all your help again.

[Smith|]

Well, do what Cucumba said and get a motherboard with PCI-E, as it's just getting better and better. And while the next R520 will be supported on the AGP8X line, who knows about down the line? Also, if you're upgrading mobos, you're probably going to need new ram and a new CPU.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-152-049&depa=0 - $97.00
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-502&depa=0 - $190.00
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-156-020&depa=0
- $84.99

Total: $371.99 + Video Card money, and you'll have an awesome system.

[Devion]

All of which are pretty useless.


It's the same pwer connector that is used for hard drives and cd-roms, but instead you plug it into the video card so it can get the power it needs.

Well you pretty wrong there, it makes it faster then normal system ram usage.

Also RAM makes the price go up, so you can make a video card cheaper.(Not that they are gonna do it -_-')

[Smith|]

Well you pretty wrong there, it makes it faster then normal system ram usage.

Also RAM makes the price go up, so you can make a video card cheaper.(Not that they are gonna do it -_-')

Well considering the cards that use the "technology" are already pretty damn slow, it is useless.