Who is stronger? Gotenks or Mystic gohan?

[mac1029]

im confused

[Jesus]

mystic gohan. on the grounds that when he arrived gotenks took a step back and gohan pwned all over buus ass. something gotenks hadnt been doing, buu and gotenks were pretty evenly matched.

[Synth]

Gotenks was a complete waste of time, a filler episode in all it's glory.

Mystic Gohan could be shed in the same light, but he was 10x cooler.

[Xerimethius]

Mystic Gohan was just plain awesome. In fact, hes so awesome he should be added to ESF <_< >_>. Gotenks was just a joke character.

[Demize]

I would have to agree with my buddy Zeonix that Mystic does pwn. =)

[SuperDragonFist]

No contest Mystic > Gotenks

[Jesus]

Mystic Gohan was just plain awesome. In fact, hes so awesome he should be added to ESF <_< >_>. Gotenks was just a joke character.


i think ull find mr smo made one with azn a while back, its on esf world. go have fun :P

[Xerimethius]

Yeah, the animations are horrible. His head sinks into his chest too o_O. I've used it before.

[Jesus]

it wasnt like that with 1.1 i dont think... maybe it got converted wrong for 1.2?

[Xerimethius]

Yeah, thats probably what happened. I used to use the model in 1.1 as well.

[Big VEE]

Gotenks < Mystic Gohan

~WHO HA!

[Ravendust]

Gohan would have been stronger than Gotenks when he attained the Mystic power, partially because when he became Mystic he got a huge boost in power, and also because he'd had a lot of training with the Z Sword which increased his powerlevel an enormous amount.

So yeah...Mystic Gohan ftw

[Vegeta]

Super Buu held back most of his battle with Gotenks, and when Gohan returned, Buu was forced to self fulminate--as did Majin Vegeta when he fought Fat Buu.
What does that tell you?

[jp]

Mystic Gohan was stronger...

I even heard they said that mystic was stronger then ssj3... but i think that is something we have to discuss in another thread.

[Ravendust]

I'd go so far to say that not only was Mystic Gohan stronger than Gotenks, but he was stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks by a small amount, although SSJ3 Gotenks never really used his full power against Super Buu because he was always messing around and was unfocused so it's a close one to call. Something notable was the way Super Buu reacted to the punches and kicks of both fighters. With Gotenks he recoiled a lot, but with Mystic Gohan he literally changed the shape of his body, like SSJ3 Gotenks' Super Ghost Kamikazi Attack did.

[Fatality]

if you have played dbz : hyper dimension for super nintendo, you would know that mystic gohan is stronger

[Hibiki]

to answer all in a simple sentance


mystic gohan was the strongest (non mystic gohan buu) character in the buu saga

[Big VEE]

to answer all in a simple sentance


mystic gohan was the strongest (non mystic gohan buu) character in the buu saga

You are right!!!...except...the Vegetto fusion would crush the unskilled insect know as Mystic Gohan.

~True that..BANG BANG

[Ravendust]

Vegetto wouldn't even need to ascend to crush Mystic Gohan, if only he used his full power instead of screwing around.

[Xerimethius]

The fact that it would take Vegetto to take down Mystic Gohan shows just how strong he actually is.

[jp]

If ssj3 goku did a full powered kamehameha at mystic gohan.... i think there is a very good chance that gohan would have been killed... o_o

and vegetto? he only had to watch at gohan and he was dead.

[tolore]

theres no way SSJ3 goku could come close to hurting mystic gohan. Fat Buu ownz SSJ3 goku, evil Buu owns Fat buu, evil buu absorbs fat Buu becomeing even stronger. Super buu owns a SSJ3 fusion. Mystic Gohan OWNS super bow. So mystic gohan is probobly the 3rd strongest character in all of Z. Veggeto is way above him, and super buu with gotenks is above him(and obviously super buu with mysic gohan + others is too). At least thats the impression i got from the show.

[Pain]

Vegetto >> Mystic Gohan >> SSJ3 Goku / SSJ3 Gotenks

Hard to say which SSJ3 was stronger, but both are weaker than Mystic Gohan, and everyone pales in comparison to Vegetto. He is the strongest character in the DBZ episodic universe.

[Jesus]

if ssj3 goku is weaker than mystic gohan, how come hes the only one who even gave a good fight against kid buu?

[Rocky]

Cause mystic Gohan died on earth and there was nobody but Goku left.

[Avenger]

SSJ3 > Mystic

Gotenks has more power, and he's stronger by far, but he screws around too much.

[jp]

Its the fusion wich gives them the awsome power.... mystic power is good, but i mean... he comes there, kicks buu's butt and a few eps later he gets beaten by him...

Mystic Gohan was a serious character, but not realy serious enough to let him win... he was only there to create Super Buu... or Super Gohan Buu... so that they could make a fight between vegetto and Gohan buu....

[whoopass]

Well from what I remember of the show (I had it on cable so I can't check back to see if I'm right)

Mystic gohan > SSJ goku/gotenks

But vegetto would be better then mystic gohan because vegetto is SSj 3 goku + SSj 2 Vegeta which is (if I still do math right) level 3 + level 2 = level 5 SSJ in logical terms (although I know he never really reached this level we know that he is still a higher level then a SSj 3 if he wanted to be)

The reason Gotenks why he is not as good a fighter as he would have been is because the kids both have there fathers worsted traits at that time. Goku has a problem with concentrating sometimes and messes around a lot BUT during a fight he is 100% on it although his second child hasn't learnt the word "serious" yet. Trunks share's the same lust to be the best and show everyone of it but where as vegeta does it for pride trunks does it for his father so that he can gain his pride in himself

again please do feel free to prove me wrong :P

[Pain]

Look at it this way. Why would there be a weaker transformation later in the show? Is there even a point to that? No, it would be a complete waste of time. So, why would Gohan have a new form when SSJ3 has already been introduced? That's right, he's stronger. Vegetto comes in after Mystic Gohan. The next step up in power comes later. This rings true with everything except for Kid Buu.

[Jesus]

pain, did you not listen when goku said "i could beat you right now, but im not always going to be here, i want new people to defend the earth"

that was in his ssj3 form.

[Pain]

I fail to see your point. Goku was talking about fat Buu when he said that if I remember correctly. Gotenks, Gohan and Vegetto could all take on fat Buu easily. That has nothing to do with which one of them is stronger than the other.

[Ravendust]

Yeah I was gonna say that, when Goku fights Fat Majin Buu on earth, he does actually have the upper hand by a small amount. Goku later tells Piccolo that he could've beaten Fat Majin Buu if he wanted, but he didn't feel it was his place to save the Earth because he was dead.

Mystic is stronger than SSJ3 in terms of power multiplyer, it's the only way to explain how Gohan (who stopped training after the Cell Games) gets stronger than Goku (who trained all the time between the destruction of Cell and the introduction of Buu (in 10x gravity too)). True he got the Z sword training, but he only trained with it for what, 8 hours? I doubt it would've accounted for 10 years of otherworld training.

[jp]

Heh, i have that weird episode on my computer, where that old fruitcake old kai is dancing around poor gohan... i dunno...

Would you want to stand there for 24 hours, seeing some old doofus dancing around you? even if you know you would get 1000 times stronger?

Its weird that this old dude could make gohan so strong.

[tolore]

kid buu is the weakest of buu's forms so of course SSJ3 goku can fight it, and all the others were unconciouse after being taken out of Buu so mystic gohan couldn't do it. I did forget that bit about goku saying he could beat fat buu. But super buu was unbelievably strong compared to fat buu.

edit: and its possible he underestimated fat Buu, he has to use the spirit bomb to take down kid Buu, although that probobly would have been eaier with fat buu, because hwile he's stronger he probobly woulda let goku do it just to see what it did.

[Phatslugga]

kid buu is the weakest of buu's forms so of course SSJ3 goku can fight it, and all the others were unconciouse after being taken out of Buu so mystic gohan couldn't do it. I did forget that bit about goku saying he could beat fat buu. But super buu was unbelievably strong compared to fat buu.


Actually you're wrong. Kid Buu was the strongest of all his previous forms. The older Kai explained that the other forms, while strong, made him weaker and less evil. When he absorbed the fat kai, he also gained the fat kai's innocence and joy, which made him weaker.

[tolore]

well what i got from the series was that it was his most DANGEROUSE form because it was basically a psycopathic killer, and each absorption made him less evil. So he's more powerful as super buu gohan, but he's not gonna run around blowing up planets like kid buu does. Anyway i heard most dangerouse not most powerful.

[sean]

Mystic Gohan, Duh XD

[SailorAlea]

Mystic Gohan was the strongest single non-fused character. He was also stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, but not Vejito/Gojita. You can tell this by comparing the enemies each was able or unable to defeat.

An interesting sidenote (this is purely conjecture), seeing as how Kid Buu was able to knock around Fat Buu and make him tired and unable to fight by forcing him to repeatedly regenerate, assuming someone was strong enough, don't you think it would be possible to kill Kid Buu in the same way--damage him repeatedly, over and over, force him to regenerate so many times he'd simply collapse/die, at which point you'd able to vaporize his body with a smaller attack than a genki dama?

I'm sure Vejito could've done that to any of the forms of Buu any time he wanted. Just an interesting thought.

[Jesus]

also, case in point, theres an eppisode where gotenks is fused in the bathtub, and goku scares the crap out of him by going ssj1 >_>

and thanks for proving my point alea, if goku could only beat fat buu at ssj3, and kid buu beat the crap out of fat buu, since goku actually held his ground against kid buu, wouldnt it be safe to assume he is the strongest?

also, the kai training didnt "multiply" gohans power, it unlocked his fighting potential, the same way as the old namek did. thus eliminating the lack of training. since training realises someones potential, if it becomes unlocked, the training is not needed.

[Ravendust]

I think they were scared because Goku (a fully developed male) went SSJ, and all his hair went gold and upright ;)

Damn you gir, editing your post. I don't like the idea that training releases potential rather than creates power, that everybody (technically and hypothetically) could be an Omega Shenron if they released their full potential. It's an interesting theory, but not one i'm in favour of. They talk about unleashing the potential/hidden power inside Gohan a lot, but isn't that what happens when he uses Rage/SSJ2/Full power SSJ2 to kill Cell?

Furthermore, Kibitokai was stronger than Gohan before he was mystic, so why didn't Ancient Kai make Kibitokai mystic?

[Jesus]

also, as a side note, when goku powered up to ssj3 at kame tower, gohan felt it on the supreme kai's planet.

when gohan powered up on the supreme kai's planet, no one felt it untill he reached earth.

[Xerimethius]

There werent too many people left to feel Gohan's power....

[jp]

Hmmm, if mystic just means, unlocking potential, so no need for training, why did gohan not went ssj? i mean, if he was that powerfull in normal state, why not ssj? or ssj2? i mean its just a multiplyer of power...

Or is that because mystic actually is a state, like the ssj trans?... and preventing him from becoming ssj, or becoming weaker as a ssj?

btw Almighty Gir,

also, as a side note, when goku powered up to ssj3 at kame tower, gohan felt it on the supreme kai's planet.

when gohan powered up on the supreme kai's planet, no one felt it untill he reached earth.

good point...

There werent too many people left to feel Gohan's power....

true, but 90% of the people on earth couldn't even sense KI like the Z fighters can<_<, so that doesn't mean anything.

[Ravendust]

He was surpressing his energy (around 80% I reckon) until he got to Earth, then Piccolo felt it, Gohan came down and they had a chat, then when he squared up to Buu he stopped surpressing any energy at all and thats why there was that bullet-time shockwave where the colours changed and then Gohan attacked.

[Xerimethius]

true, but 90% of the people on earth couldn't even sense KI like the Z fighters can<_<, so that doesn't mean anything.

If it doesnt mean anything for Gohan, why should it mean anything for Goku?

[jp]

but my question was

Could mystic gohan go ssj ssj2? just curious, i know he didn't do it, maybe because he could become weaker.. since mystic is a state... or am i wrong?

Can mystic gohan go ssj?

[Xerimethius]

I dont think he could. The Mystic power up gave him the strength of ssj/2 and beyond. Basically, to gain this immense power, he had to give up the gold hair.

[Jesus]

the point is that gohan, on the kai planet, felt goku's energy when he powered up on earth. when gohan powered up on the kai planet, piccolo, buu, gotenks, tien,dende, and chou-tzu were all still alive and able to sense energy, but felt nothing.

[Xerimethius]

They also spent like 5 minutes showing Goku go ssj3...they showed the part where Gohan noticed the energy for dramatic effect. No one wants to watch Gohan scream for 5 minutes. Everyone wanted to see him go kick buu's ass.

[Jesus]

duh, the dramatic effect was to show goku's power >_>

[tolore]

remember though that the fat buu that lost to kid buu wasn't as powerful as the one goku fought, when he spit out the evil buu(the thin gray one) he probobly lost tons of power. Also when gohan was on king kai's planet he wasn't really preoccupied with a fight at the moment, everyone on earth was in the middle of a dramatic battle.

[Xerimethius]

If Goku was so much stronger than Gohan, why didnt he go fight Super Buu rather than go crazy trying to fuse with Gohan? Surely his power would have been enough to defeat him -_-.

[jp]

I dont think he could. The Mystic power up gave him the strength of ssj/2 and beyond. Basically, to gain this immense power, he had to give up the gold hair.

lol.... sorry, no offense, but that just doesn't make any sense..

omg look i lost my golden hair, i am now a super duper mystic person! :O

no doesn't work for me...

[Xerimethius]

Doesnt matter if it works for you or not. He cant go ssj, and thats all that matters. Just accept it...its a friggin cartoon...

[Jesus]

If Goku was so much stronger than Gohan, why didnt he go fight Super Buu rather than go crazy trying to fuse with Gohan? Surely his power would have been enough to defeat him -_-.


because at that point super buu had absorbed both piccolo and ssj3 gotenks > ssj3goku and mystic gohan.

[tolore]

he can't go super sayin because mystic unlock his full power, so he could go super sayin but he wouldn't gain any power and would waste energy. Of course thats just my theory i don't think its ever stated anywhere, but obviously if he could have he would have.

[jp]

Doesnt matter if it works for you or not. He cant go ssj, and thats all that matters. Just accept it...its a friggin cartoon...

okay,... and mystic is stronger then gotenks and ssj3 goku... just accept it everybody, its just a friggin cartoon.

[Xerimethius]

Thank you. SSJ3 is crap compared to Mystic Gohan.

[KelesK]

But Goku is the **** and > everyone...

[Xerimethius]

We're pretending Gohan and Goku had a fair fight in another anime series (so Goku wont always win just because hes the main character o_O.

[[S]]

I thought if gohan went SSJ in mystic he would blow up the universe or some **** like that?

[NeoSlash]

*** WARNING: MANGA SPOILERS ***




Majin Buu - 600,000,000

Super Gohan 2 - 250,000,000
Dabura - 170,000,000 (Injured)
Kaioshin - 45,000,000
Majin Vegeta - 360,000,000

Majin Vegeta [Final Explosion] - 800,000,000

Super Goku 3 - 1,080,000,000
Majin Buu - 850,000,000

Gotenks - 400,000,000
Majin Buu - 1,000,000,000

Super Gotenks - 1,200,000,000

Fusion
Evil Buu - 720,000,000
Mister Buu - 400,000,000

Super Buu - 4,000,000,000

Gotenks - 500,000,000
Super Gotenks - 1,500,000,000
Super Gotenks 3 - 4,500,000,000

Son Gohan - 5,200,000,000

Super Buu Gotenks - 6,000,000,000
Super Buu Piccolo - 4,050,000,000
Super Buu Gohan - 6,700,000,000

Vegito - 26,000,000,000

Evil Kid Buu
Super Buu - 4,000,000,000
Buff Buu - 4,600,000,000
Kid Buu - 720,000,000

Super Goku 3 - 720,000,000
Super Vegeta 2 - 280,000,000
Mister Buu - 400,000,000

Genki Dama - 22,000,000,000

Son Goku - 90,000,000
Uub - 12 (Relaxed)
Uub - 85,000,000 (Enraged)

So, there you go. Mystic Gohan is the most powerful non-fused character, Vegito could crush him (though don't know if that is Super Vegito or just Vegito, but does it matter?).

Doink!

[Jesus]

could you please post the source of those power levels? cos iirc, there havent been any OFFICIAL power levels released past the cell saga.

[NeoSlash]

http://www.myfavoritegames.com/dbz/power-levels(new).htm

[Jesus]

thats not an official site >_> and therefor the power levels are just guesses.

[Grega]

Super Buu Gohan - 6,700,000,000
.
.
.
Kid Buu - 720,000,000

OMG kid buu is weaker than GohanBuu

ontopic: Gohan is clearly stronget than Gotenks

[Jesus]

gohan is definately stronger than gotenks, but i still think ssj3goku > gohan.

and yes kid buu is weaker, he was described as the most evil buu, not the strongest.

[Kurachi]

mystic is as strong as ssj3 i think, and gokussj3 is stronger then gotenks ( not talking about the attacks ) so i think gohan is stronger

[NeoSlash]

also on that site:

Mystic Saiyan - This form is achieved by Gohan after his power up from Old Kai. During this state his power is fully maximized. So much so that he does not need to ever go Super Saiyan to increase his power. It looks exactly the same as his normal state, as you can see from the picture. If the Old Kai had finished the power up Gohan would have been stronger than SSJ3 Goku, but he never finishes because he is too lazy.
Achieved By: Gohan

well, that doesn't make sense =\

[Chakra-X]

gohan is definately stronger than gotenks, but i still think ssj3goku > gohan.

and yes kid buu is weaker, he was described as the most evil buu, not the strongest.

I'd have to desagree, when super tranfomred into kid buu, Goku and Vegeta were confused because his powerlevel was going up instead of down.